Just Breathe! Staying Mindful While Working

It’s all in your mind! This week The Founders share apps and strategies they use to stay mindful and breathing while banging out code. Also, do they actually miss anything about working for "the man" before setting of on their own? Plus, what will the future of office snacks look like in a world without offices? Tune in and satisfy your hunger for FounderQuest!

Show Notes:
Links:

Horrorstör
Tiny MBA
Great Nuts
AntiRSI
MotivAider
Pomodoro Technique

Full Transcript:
Starr:
So, I've got to say, this is kind of a brag. It's completely off topic but I've got to tell somebody. I'm very proud of myself. You know how in any... I don't know. Whenever you watch movies or TV about prison, or weird situations, there's always somebody who's a genius at making booze, right?

Josh:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh, yeah. Like the trash bag or whatever?

Starr:
Yeah. You take whatever's in your environment and you somehow make booze out of it. Well, I think I'm kind of like that with ice cream. I think I'm the same with ice cream.

Josh:
Some garbage bag ice cream?

Starr:
No, not garbage bag ice cream. But I was just like... Yesterday, I was like-

Josh:
Some bathtub ice cream?

Starr:
Yesterday I was like, "I really want ice cream but I don't have any cream."

Josh:
Gotcha. Okay.

Starr:
Yeah.

Josh:
Yeah.

Starr:
Yeah. So, I was like, "Okay. I need my fat source. I need my source of milk solids. I need a sugar source."

Josh:
Yeah, you're going all chemist on it.

Starr:
Oh yeah, yeah, totally. It does harken back into the chemistry stuff. But actually, it turns out, if you take a can of sweetened condensed milk, and a package of Philadelphia cream cheese, and you add a little bit of milk to dilute them, and then blend them in a blender, and then put them in an ice cream maker, it makes pretty serviceable ice cream. It's a little bit sweet for my taste but it worked out.

Josh:
It's good to know.

Josh:
Sounds like some sort of new form of gelatto or something.

Starr:
Yeah. Something like that.

Josh:
I don't know. You got to come up with a name for that.

Starr:
Yeah.

Josh:
Like your own name.

Starr:
I don't know.

Josh:
Yeah. We don't have to do it on the air. I'm not... Not to put you on the spot.

Starr:
No. No. I'm not going to give that way to... I'm not going to give that away. You got to pay for that.

Starr:
Yeah. So, on Monday, we had our all hands meeting and... Except Ben wasn't here because he was taking some sort of time of which is just amazing. It's unprecedented.

Josh:
Yeah. Can we say why, Ben?

Ben:
I suppose.

Josh:
It's because Monday was Ben's birthday. Happy birthday, Ben.

Starr:
Oh, happy birthday.

Ben:
Thank you. Thank you.

Josh:
I'm pretty sure he hates this. So, I'm sorry, this is not your birthday present.

Starr:
I'm sorry. We won't sing. We won't sing.

Ben:
There was no ice cream involved but there was cream cheese. My birthday dessert was cream cheese sopapilla. So tasty.

Starr:
Oh.

Josh:
Nice.

Ben:
Yes. Yes.

Starr:
Oh, nice.

Josh:
Sounds good.

Starr:
I'm really curious what that's like. But anyway, the thing that you missed, you missed our all hands meeting. It was lonely without you but we made do. And we had an interesting conversation I thought about the way that which we work, right? We're all working on computers all day. We all feel rushed. We're doing this stuff. It leads to surmounting pressure and tension. And I really enjoyed having a conversation with everybody about that. I learned that some people are into yoga in our office. I'm a little bit into yoga. I'm a baby yoga person. A baby yogee. We talked about balance boards, and how Josh is like... I don't know. It just seems like Back To The Future to me, you're on the hoverboard all day, just sitting there typing.

Josh:
It does kind of feel like a hoverboard, yeah.

Starr:
Yeah?

Josh:
I'm not on it right now.

Starr:
Well, unfortunately.

Josh:
Just because I... I don't know.

Starr:
You should do that more-

Josh:
I know If I always used it during the podcast, I know that at some point I'll probably wipe out.

Starr:
That's why I was saying you should do it. We should capture that.

Starr:
Yeah. Yeah. I discussed a little bit about how I found that just trying to do things quickly is kind of stressful. And so, things that are... Email checking that doesn't require a bunch of... It's not too thoughtful and I tend to just be like, "Delete. Delete. Delete." Just go through as quick as possible. I've been trying to purposely slow that down just a little bit. And we're talking about it adds an extra five minutes. So, not really that much longer, and that's helpful. I'm not saying I want to do the whole podcast about this, I just wanted to mention that because I just really enjoyed talking with everybody about that stuff. I think that's a good... It makes me happy that we're doing these bi-weekly check ins.

Josh:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it was a good chat.

Starr:
Yeah.

Josh:
Yeah. That reminded me, I had to turn off my bell of mindfulness because I realized it was probably going to chime.

Starr:
Oh, you did? So, you go one?

Josh:
Well, I downloaded the app to check it out, and turn the thing on. So, every 15 minutes or whatever it dings.

Starr:
Oh yeah. I forgot I told y'all about that. So, that is-

Josh:
Yeah. I kind of like it actually. It's... Yeah, you have to say what it is but yeah, it's cool. It does bring you out of the moment and then lets you refocus.

Starr:
Yeah. So, it's just a really simple app. It's the plum village app which is... It's released by this monastery in France, it's a Buddhist monastery and as part of it... I mean, it's all free and stuff but as part of it, they have this basically that will... It's this meditation bell, this really long, and really... You have an option of a couple of them.

Josh:
Yeah.

Starr:
And it just rings every 15 minute so you just remember to be like, "Oh yeah, I exist in the world. I'm not just eyes looking and fingers typing."

Josh:
Yeah. It came about in this discussion on Monday I think because we got talking about when you're in deep focus at work, especially on a computer, I think Starr you mentioned you've experienced this and I have too to some extent, you can get really absorbed to the point where you're almost in some kind of... I don't know. It can be a little stressful after a while because... At least for me, I find myself, my breathing tends to get more shallow, and I stop blinking. So, having something to break you out of that and remind you, "Oh, you shouldn't work for... You shouldn't spend two hours in that state." And pomodoro technique for instance is something people created to create some sort of more focused schedule where you still remember to take breaks and let your mind wander and stuff.

Josh:
So, to me, this seems a little bit... It fulfills a little bit of that. It's not as structured but it's just a thing that reminds you, prompts you basically to stop and think for a minute before continuing in your work or whatever.

Starr:
Yeah. It's really cute because my little daughter is... She's obviously noticed there's a bell going off. And so, I told her what it was, "It's like, you take your breath." And so, she'll hear it, and she'll just be like, "Hmm-Ha." And then, just go back to whatever she was doing. But it's cute because it's so... It's kind of just like... I mean, it's "I'm just going to take this breath then I'm going to get back to what I'm doing." It's... I don't know. It's a little bit beside the point but she's learning, it's pretty cool.

Josh:
That's cool. It reminds me of... There's this thing called a MotivAider. It's M-O-T-I-V-A-I-D-E-R. And we can link it up. It's like a little timer device that's used by behavioral specialists, and psychologists and stuff I guess basically in helping to reinforce habits. But I think it could probably serve a similar purpose, where basically it's just a device to prompt you to remember to do something on a regular basis, or a semi-random basis. I think it has a couple of different settings. But it's the same idea. Basically, if it's something that your mind doesn't consciously remember to do on the cycle that you want it to happen, like a habit for instance, it helps to establish that and remind you.

Starr:
Can I just say that I just now looked up MotivAider, like MotivAider on Google and-

Josh:
Doesn't it look super old school? It goes really well with my pager.

Starr:
Well, yeah. But there's also apparently a quick charge automotive battery charger named the motivator and I thought that was it. And I was just like, "This is intense. It's got these giant wires coming out of it. This giant box."

Josh:
It just really helps you recharge, Starr.

Starr:
Yeah. Yeah.

Josh:
It zaps you. It zaps you out of the moment.

Starr:
I'm imagining a Clockwork Orange scene.

Josh:
Yeah. Your eyes wide open.

Starr:
It just shocks you violently every five minutes.

Josh:
Yep. Well, that would be the wrong way to practice something like the piano for instance. We were talking about... I know piano teachers back in the day, like my mom's piano teacher for instance, she would always tell me... Because when I was learning to play the piano, and you have to learn how to... Remember to keep your hands in the proper position. And the old school teachers would use a sharpened pencil tip under your palm to basically... So, it's like you have a real incentive to keep your-

Ben:
Oh, mine used an orange.

Josh:
Was it an orange? Well, you were lucky. I guess I was too. I didn't get the pencil either. Yeah.

Starr:
I'm wondering who ate those grubby oranges after kids have been putting their hands all over them.

Josh:
I don't know. But I guess the point is, is that something like the MotivAider, or something like it is the more humane way to remember to use proper posture at the piano.

Starr:
Yeah. Definitely. And also, naming your... Using a clever pun spelling for your product name makes it really un-Googleable.

Josh:
Or a meme.

Starr:
Yeah, or a meme. Or a meme. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Josh:
We're one to talk.

Starr:
Yep, these are very unique product name.

Josh:
Hi, I'm Randall, and I'm the founder of Honeybadger.

Starr:
No, no, no, no. No, we never saw that. We saw that after we created the company. We only saw that after.

Ben:
So, along the lines of things helping you to remember to do things, I use an app on the Mac called Anti-RSI. And what it does, is it has a configurable timer that reminds you to take a work break. So, I think I have mine set at every hour or so. And then, you can configure how long a break is. So, I think mine is three minutes. And so, you can... It just pops up this overlay that says, "Hey, go take a break." And then, it does a countdown timer that you define.

Josh:
Cool.

Ben:
And so, I used that to remind myself to get up, walk around, get a glass of water, that sort of thing.

Josh:
So, that sounds a little bit like a Pomodoro timer but just with less... Yeah, fewer rules. It's just one work session, right? You work for a set amount of time, and then take a break, come back.

Ben:
Yep.

Josh:
That's cool. It's funny, all these things we just mentioned basically do exactly the same thing which basically just prompts you to remember to do something.

Ben:
Right.

Josh:
On a timer.

Ben:
Yeah.

Josh:
There must be something there.

Ben:
One non-app, non-device that you can use for that though is just drink a lot of water and then periodically, you're going to have to get up to go the bathroom.

Josh:
Right. That does work. Yeah.

Starr:
I feel called out here. When we do conclave, I always have to go to the bathroom twice as much as everybody else.

Josh:
It's nature's motivator.

Starr:
It's nature's motivator. There you go. That's like the kids who drink a lot of water on Christmas Eve so they'll wake up extra early and bug their parents on Christmas Day.

Josh:
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what our... I mean, it seems like you could put any kind of... There's any number of applications for these type of devices. So, if yours Ben is Anti-RSI, which is completely... I'd buy that. I'd buy that along with my Pomodoro, and my MotivAider. Because they all do the same thing. I have RSI so obviously I don't want to make my RSI worse. So, I wonder, maybe that's an opportunity. You just find a problem that can be helped by regularly habitual activity, and then label it with the thing that it's fixing, like specific thing that it's fixing.

Josh:
And then just put an app in the app store.

Starr:
Today, on FounderQuest, timers.

Ben:
So, we can build an anti-hunger app that just reminds you to go eat?

Josh:
Yeah, exactly.

Starr:
There you go. There you go. Speaking of timers by the way, this is a complete tangent, I'm just going to gripe, I'm going to put this out into the universe, maybe somebody will inform me but I just want a microwave that just has a mechanical timer on it with minutes. That's all I want. Maybe another setting where it's a mechanical with power setting. That's all I want. I'm tired of digital... Of having to press a button.

Josh:
Like a mechanical dial. Like one of those old school kitchen timers would be cool.

Starr:
Yeah, exactly.

Josh:
Wouldn't it? Yeah.

Starr:
We used to have one a long time ago when microwaves were new and before everything was digital, and it was really awesome. Or, I mean, my parents had one. I'm not really old enough to have had that myself. Anyway, that's just my little gripe.

Josh:
Maybe you can find one and refurbish it, and bring it back to life.

Starr:
There we go. That's how I want to spend my time.

Josh:
"I'm Starr and I'm really into restoring old microwaves."

Starr:
Yeah, like Pimp My Microwave. This here is an 83 Victorilux.

Josh:
Look, I mean, you could have a thriving YouTube channel I'm sure. It's amazing the things that people will narrow... Get specific about, and it's just their thing now and the people they'll find to watch it. Yeah. It's pretty fascinating.

Starr:
Oh yeah, and especially since there's always a risk of death because it's really high voltage.

Ben:
But if you have a digital microwave, you don't need the mindfulness app because you can just set your timer on your microwave for 15 minutes.

Josh:
Oh, yeah, that's true.

Starr:
That's terrible for the planet. Terrible for the planet. We're supposed to hack the planet, not destroy it, Ben.

Ben:
And every developer can have a microwave on their desk for... Set it for an hour timer so they'll get up and go walk around.

Starr:
Oh, God. I worked at offices where that seems like that was actually the case.

Josh:
Yeah. I was going to say only if there's stale popcorn in it.

Starr:
Yeah. Actually, on one of our podcasts, we had this backlogger podcast topic, this is getting pretty small. This is one reason we just have these spur of the moment episodes.

Josh:
We don't really add to it.

Starr:
Nor do we really take away from it. Anyway, the reason that I was mentioning this is that one of the things on it was, "What do you miss about working for the man?" And I'm not quite sure this is... There's enough there to make an actual episode about but I guess if I miss anything, it would be endless free soda water. I've got to get my own soda water now, it's a pain in the ass.

Josh:
Wait, did someone bring you soda water?

Starr:
Well, no but there was a refrigerator, you go get it, it's fine.

Josh:
Oh yeah.

Starr:
But then, the microwave situation, people make popcorn in there, they heat up leftovers and I have a very... I have sensory things. I'm very sensitive to smells, and so it's just so, so annoying. I'm so glad I only have to deal with my own smells. That's the best thing about working from home, is I only have to smell myself.

Josh:
Yeah. And your loved ones.

Starr:
And my loved ones, yeah. My kids are pretty stinky.

Josh:
I never really worked for the man a whole lot. I've been self-employed for a really long time.

Ben:
Yeah. I think the biggest thing that I miss from the last office scenario I was in, was the unlimited snacks. I ate way too many cashews at the last office I was in because I love cashews.

Josh:
You all realize that all of these problems you're mentioning are easily solved. Like for instance, buying cashews or a soda maker, right? I'll go on Amazon and fix this for you right now if you want me to.

Ben:
Yeah, it's kind of silly. But it's different when you-

Starr:
But then you have to keep doing it.

Josh:
No, I know. It is. You have it all, and it was done for you. You didn't have to think about it. It's all stocked. Yeah.

Ben:
Yeah. I remember my first job out of college was at a start up and this was back in the .com boom days. And there was a fridge in the office kitchen that was fully stocked. And it just blew my mind that I could just walk up to the kitchen, get a thing of ham, and some cheese, and some sandwich bread and make a sandwich, and take that back to... That was just really weird to me. Why are you feeding me whatever I want to eat? And then, I overtime realized, "Oh, it's because you don't want me to leave."

Josh:
"You mean, I have value? There's a reason you want me here?"

Ben:
Yeah, it was strange.

Starr:
Yeah, that's the secret. And I don't know, it's interesting being on the side of employing people. We don't really do any of this stuff because we're not evil. I mean, evil's a bit of a harsh phrase but we just don't really do it. But I don't know, it does make things occur to me a bit more. It's like, "Oh yeah, this is how you extract a little bit more value out of people." 

Ben:
Yeah, it's... Well, I mean, one thing, we don't have an office, right? So, we can't provide snacks and meals and so on. But the whole thing about having that, those free snacks, to me it's not just that it's free but also that, I don't have to do anything a part from having to show up.

Josh:
Right.

Ben:
All I have to do, is walk over to the bin and fill up my handful of nuts and walk away.

Josh:
Yeah. I was going to say, I think there's probably something to be said for the decisions that are reduced that you don't have to make in order to have those benefits and stuff. I wonder if now that... Because I know there are entire positions, maybe even departments in... I don't know, whatever they call it, for corporate... For hospitality for employees or whatever. There's a position of whatever, managing entertainment, food, snacks, all the stuff that in a large modern office, if the switch to remote is... If large companies start doing that, do you think that there will be departments that are in charge of... Or maybe there are, in charge of employee happiness at home? Maybe you'll start getting boxes of stuff, like snack boxes delivered to your door or whatever so you can have that experience.

Starr:
Oh, I want that.

Josh:
Right?

Starr:
Can Honeybadger just provide me with a continuous stream of soda delivery?

Josh:
I think actually there... I've seen... There are some... I think there's some start up... Services that do that, like snack subscription. We've talked about that in the past I think a little bit but I wonder if companies buying those for their employees is a thing.

Starr:
Yeah, maybe. I know my partner at work said... She works at a really large company, and they are... They definitely are... They kicked up the working from home budget to spend on your workspace and everything. So, I know they're thinking about it.

Ben:
On this topic, if you want to provide some snacks to your employees remotely, of course you can just order some stuff and ship them. And you should definitely check out greatnuts.com. They were featured recently in a... Forbes or something? And they had this story about how they were the main supplier for American Airlines, and then American Airlines called them up one day and said, "You know what? We're not going to have anymore nuts. Thanks very much, have a great day."

Josh:
No more nuts.

Ben:
And this company's like, "Well, we're sitting on a year's worth of inventory. So, what are we going to do?" And so, they tried to ramp up their eCommerce arm pretty quickly and I decided to buy a couple bags of nuts to support them. And it's great stuff. If you put it in the microwave for a few seconds, it's like you're sitting in first class.

Josh:
But I can just like... He's got his little tray.

Josh:
He's going to his kids and like, "Hey, here, take this tray. And I'm going to go. Just bring this in, in a few minutes."

Ben:
And bring me a hot towel.

Starr:
The chair you're sitting in though looks too comfy for first class. You got to get a less comfy chair. Got to suck those legs in. I mean, do you think leg room's free?

Josh:
Just sitting by the window.

Ben:
So, maybe we should subscribe to... All Honeybadger employers to a delivery of great nuts on a regular basis maybe. Once a month drop off some.

Josh:
That'd be a cool... Yeah.

Starr:
There you go. Yeah, I'd take some nuts.

Josh:
I'd be down.

Starr:
You say they're really great. So, I know these people are honest.

Josh:
Yeah.

Ben:
A+, would buy again.

Josh:
Will this put at odds with the airline industry because if they have success... If they start to come back after all of this, we'll be like, "What? The price of nuts is going up?"

Ben:
I don't know. You think the price of nuts is a determining factor in the price of airline fares like the price of gas is? Maybe they have nuts future's to help stabilize the prices.

Josh:
That's an economic question for sure.

Ben:
I'll have to research that.

Josh:
Yeah.

Starr:
So, my theory of first class is that it's not the nuts that drive up the price. My theory of first class is that you're actually paying... I mean, the seats are nicer and everything but the few times that I've been in first class... Well, do you know, even nowadays, maybe if I were to travel... I've had the opportunity to go first class and I've not done it because people at the front of the plane tend to die more in plane crashes which is a little bit neurotic on my part, I know. So, I just get the rear most exit seat. I know that's optimizing for a problem that probably won't come up but I think the real thing that stood out to first class for me, is just the people, the stewardesses, stewards were very nice. And so, it's like, are you just paying to have people treat you kindly?

Josh:
Just not be mean to you.

Starr:
Yeah. You're paying to have people treat you like a decent human being.

Ben:
Basically, yes.

Josh:
Yeah. I think that's a good analysis.

Ben:
I mean, that's what you pay for when you go to stay at the Four Seasons. It's not like the bed is really going to be all that different from a bed at any other hotel but that service is really what you pay for.

Josh:
Yeah. They just hire people who care and train them properly. Yeah.

Starr:
Yeah.

Ben:
Totally.

Starr:
And I've been to a couple really nice restaurants in the Seattle area. And they both had really good service. And the thing that struck me at both of them is the waiters were just extremely kind and not rushed, and just like, "We're just here for you. We're going to take care of you, so don't worry about anything." In both instances, I remember just breathing this sigh of relief. It's like, "Okay, I can relax now because I don't have to handle anything. I don't have to worry about anything."

Ben:
And that's exactly what we've done with Honeybadger, right? We provide first class service at bottom rate prices.

Starr:
Under rock bottom prices. What is our ROI? We don't care. Because we're not MBAs.

Ben:
Speaking of MBAs, have you seen The Tiny MBA book?

Josh:
Yeah. By Alex?

Ben:
Yes.

Starr:
No, I don't know about it. Tell me about it. Are you going to talk this one up too?

Josh:
Is this going to be my thing? I'm showing the book again.

Starr:
Okay. He's holding it up. It's yellow. It's got a '70s booker typeface on it.

Josh:
Yeah. It's got a very cool retro... I don't know, roller-derby type font or something.

Ben:
Yeah, it's very great. Very nice design.

Josh:
Yeah.

Ben:
So, it's a great little book. The subtitle is, "100 Very Short Lessons About The Long Game Of Business" By Alex Hillman. And I had a chance to read through. It just took me... I don't know, a few minutes because it is pretty short. But I love business books in general but this one is great because it's not... It doesn't take forever to make the point. Some business books it's like oh, you read chapter after chapter and it's like, "Okay. I get it. Let's move onto the next thing."

Starr:
I know. And there's a parable about people in the middle ages thrown in there.

Ben:
Right.

Starr:
How they're talking in yee-olden talk.

Josh:
Yeah. Yeah.

Starr:
That type of talking. Sorry.

Ben:
So, this is great because it's short. It's these great little tidbits, vignettes and so, you could read through it in a sitting but you can also take this one thought, one of the 100 thoughts and you can just chew on that for a day, or for a week, and just think about how it impacts your business, or your approach to businesses. It's really good stuff. So, if you haven't checked it out, do check it out.

Starr:
I will check it out. I'm the only one who hasn't checked it out in here, so I got to check it out now.

Josh:
You got the eBook copy, right Ben?

Ben:
I did. Yep.

Starr:
Is it available on Amazon? Or is it a you have to buy it through him thing?

Josh:
It is, yeah. It's available on both I think.

Ben:
So, there's a bit of a story behind the Amazon thing actually. I don't know if it is still available on Amazon. So, there's a whole... If you go and check out Alex's Twitter feed, you'll see this story and he actually wrote up a blog post about it too. So, what happened was, when he used their publishing tools, they neglected to call out and sufficient I guess red letters that if a you used the tool, the way they recommended, it wouldn't work for iPad... I'm sorry, for Kindle devices. So, the book runs... Works just fine with a Kindle app on the iPad, or on the iPhone, or presumably a Kindle Fire which I don't have. But if you want to read it on your Kindle Paperwhite, no go. Because the way they do their PDF layout stuff, he did fancy layout things that just aren't compatible.

Ben:
So, it might be available on Amazon. I got it from Amazon. I did the pre-order before everyone realized this was a problem. And I was cool with it because I just read it on my iPad, no big deal.

Josh:
Oh, okay.

Ben:
But if you want to read it on your Paperwhite, it may not be an option.

Josh:
That can be tricky. That's too bad.

Starr:
That's good to know.

Josh:
Yeah.

Starr:
The Kindle device formatting, my experience with it has been... Basically, it's basic mark down, is what you need to use. That's the formatting you get to use, is just basic mark down.

Josh:
Yeah. I try to buy that stuff off of Amazon if I have the option anyway just because I think... They take a pretty decent cut, right?

Starr:
Yeah.

Josh:
I figure in any case, any cut is... Yeah.

Starr:
That makes sense.

Josh:
One bonus of the paperback, is that... Well, actually, there was an issue with the paperback too where there was an intro... There's an intro chapter to the book that I guess explains how... It's like a how to read this book type thing. Somehow, that got left out of the initial run of printing. So, the people who pre-ordered super early got a book that didn't have the first little intro, "How To Read This Book" Chapter. I think that's what it was. And Alex actually handled this very well because he pitched it as a limited first edition which is... That's just brilliant because that's what you do if you have a printing error in your first edition copy. I mean, it just makes it better. I'm stoked now. Now mine is even more unique now. It's not only a first edition, but it's a limited first edition.

Starr:
That's going to have real value in the after-market.

Josh:
It's like edition zero.

Starr:
Oh, I see that we have a... Ben pasted a link that we'll have in the show notes too. The actual to Alex's website where I think you can buy the book directly from him?

Josh:
Yeah. Yeah. If you can, go get the link in the show notes.

Starr:
Yeah. That's better than-

Josh:
It's stacking the bricks... What is it? Stackingthebricks.com/tinymba

Ben:
Yep.

Josh:
There you go.

Ben:
Or, you can go to tiny.mba and that redirects to that.

Josh:
Oh, that's easy too. That's easier to say.

Starr:
Yeah. I used to be a big Amazon fan and order stuff from them every day but now I'm trying to order directly from smaller businesses too and just yeah. I don't know. It just seems a little bit yucky lately.

Josh:
I'm trying to but it's so hard. The number of times... It pops into your head, it's something you need around the house or whatever, you can just... Two taps and it's on it's way. I mean, the Amazon delivery people know us. They're here every... Multiple times... Probably, if not every day, it's close because it's just a steady stream of deliveries. And I mean, you think you can justify it like, "Well, they're driving by the house every day no matter what. Everyone is doing this." Which that's where the economy of scale comes from or whatever. So, it's not like you're necessarily saving a trip of a delivery truck to your house because they're just stopping. But still, it does feel... It feels a little... Yeah, not optimal I guess.

Starr:
Yeah.

Josh:
I don't know what the word is.

Ben:
If you're feeling guilty about the repeated Amazon deliveries, they do have that delivery day option now where you can-

Josh:
Oh, really?

Ben:
Yeah, you can group all of your orders into one delivery day.

Josh:
Oh, I didn't know that.

Ben:
Yeah. So, if you say Monday, and you order something on say, Wednesday, you're just like, "Oh, I can choose. I'll just wait until the next Monday." And then they'll just bring all that stuff at one time.

Josh:
And is that account wide option? If you set it, then everything will be delivered on that day, or you have to do it every time?

Ben:
If you set it, then it shows up as an option for your shipping when you check out. So, if don't do your buy it now, then you see the options like, "Next day." Or, "Save a buck." Kind of thing.

Josh:
Okay.

Starr:
Yeah. I saw that in my latest one. There's somethings that I just can't really find that places aren't Amazon, or Walmart. And it's like, "Well, you know, it's not like Walmart's really better people than Amazon." So, I'll just order from the easier one.

Josh:
If you do that, does it... Will they batch the stuff into boxes? Like, do you get a bigger box... Will they combine shipments if you do that? Or, is it 10 boxes showing up? Individual boxes? Because that would make me feel even worse. Seeing it all at once... I mean, at least with a slow drip of deliveries, you don't have to see all the cardboard you're wasting.

Ben:
I do believe they will try to package them together, yeah.

Josh:
Okay. Because honestly, that's a benefit. I think it's almost... It's like, the cardboard, all these boxes that you end up having to recycle, and knowing that recycling centers aren't even... They're overwhelmed and I don't think half the time they're not even able to recycle it properly. Yeah, it would be nice to use less shipping materials.

Starr:
Just burn it and use the fire to cook groul for orphans. Yeah, there's the environmental impact which I kind of am aware of but also, there's a couple things, like the counterfeit problem, and things that aren't necessarily counterfeits but... I've heard things about older models being passed off as newer models of electronics, or things that were recalled and there's a slight problem with it being passed off as the new version. When I was looking into Ubiquity stuff, people were getting... The people on the Ubiquity forum from Ubiquity were like, "Yeah, that's really... I don't know who's selling that but that's not... That's this old jenky thing."

Josh:
That's not cool.

Starr:
Yeah, so electronics I've been trying to order directly from either the supplier like Ubiquity, or Target because I know Target, at least it's going to get me the thing that they're promising me.

Josh:
Yeah. Or maybe even New Egg or something. New Egg has always been pretty good in the past for me.

Starr:
Yeah.

Josh:
Seems like they would care about that sort of thing with their customer base.

Ben:
And if you do want to avoid shipments, there's always Best Buy and Home Depot, they have great curbside service now. Which I hope continues after COVID because that is just super convenient.

Josh:
Yeah. I do. Yeah, I hope the curbside sticks around. Ikea has curbside.

Ben:
That's worth something right there.

Josh:
My hate for Ikea is legendary in my house. Yeah. So yeah, me and my wife, Kaylen had to go... Normally, I'm like, "Oh, we're going to Ikea." It's always a trip through a crowded maze. And I haven't been this year of course. But in the past, it's the last thing that I would want to do. So, Ikea having curbside pick up is... I'm a fan.

Starr:
There's a book... I'll see if I still have it to give it to you, Josh but it's called, "Horrorstor"

Josh:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Starr:
It's a horror story that takes place in a store very similar to Ikea but not named Ikea for legal reasons.

Josh:
Please do. I'm already sold.

Starr:
And the book is the format of an Ikea catalog, as much a text book can be in the format of an Ikea catalog.

Josh:
That sounds awesome.

Starr:
Yeah, it's pretty funny.

Josh:
Don't tell me how it ends. Does it end with having to put a bookshelf together for six days?

Starr:
I don't know. Honestly, I feel like the concept was the strongest thing about that book.

Ben:
Speaking of Ikea, I saw a joke about Ikea and TicToc.

Starr:
I'm linking to it in the show notes.

Josh:
So, tell me, what's the joke?

Ben:
So, Microsoft is bidding on TikTok and then it came out that Walmart wanted to be part of that where they're buying TikTok, and then someone tweeted a joke and said, "Well, Ikea wants to buy TikTok too but they're still assembling their bid."

Josh:
Hmm.

Starr:
Hmm.

Josh:
Yeah.

Starr:
That's pretty funny. I don't know, I honestly... I kind of like Ikea. It's a pain in the ass going there, it takes all day. I like going in the morning, and having lunch there, and I don't know. They just won my heart because the first place we took Ida as a new born baby, was Ikea. And we didn't know what we were doing and we were just like, "Ah." And they have these family bathrooms which are these luxurious bathrooms bigger than our bathroom at home with all the stuff you need for a baby, and the rocking chair, and everything. And it was just like, "This is very nice." I will love Ikea always for providing this so I can not be super stressed out about dealing with this filthy little human.

Josh:
Yeah. I'm sorry, by the way Ben for... I ruined your joke I feel like because I got distracted in the middle of it. It's not that I didn't think it was funny, it's just that I wasn't listening to you. The horror story, the title of it caught my eye and I was looking-

Ben:
It's all good.

Josh:
My apologies. I love the cover of this, Starr. It's pretty good. It does fill me with some dread.

Starr:
Yeah. I'll see if I can describe. It looks like an Ikea catalog, it's got a bright couch with a palm tree looking plant and a bright rug, and a table, and then these little framed... These framed prints artfully arranged. And the prints, it looks like a zombie or something is trying to get out of them.

Josh:
Yeah, like through the glass.

Starr:
Yeah. It's pretty awesome. It's actually a great idea for somebody's home decoration.

Josh:
It is. Yeah. I kind of want to do that now. Yeah.

Starr:
All right. So, this has been FounderQuest. If you enjoyed the show... Wait. That's my mindfulness bell. So, let's all take a breath. Ready? If you enjoy the show, and the peace that it brings you in today's hectic world, please go to Apple Podcast, interview us. If you want to write for us, we still do that thing. So, go to honeybadger.io/blog Look for the link that says, "Write for us." Read the whole thing, and contact me. And yeah. So, until next week, see y'all later.




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